When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. I have the EP8 on a Commencal Meta Power. Weve been living with the Shimano EP8 motor for six months now across three different bikes; the Merida eOne-Sixty, the Polygon Mt Bromo, and the Canyon Spectral:ON. The thing is though, you do actually get used to that noise. What would happen if a consumer noticed their axle was cracked in the way described on e*thirteens TSB? You also need a special key to release the battery from the frame, which were not fans of, at least for a mountain bike anyway. That rattle would drive me bonkers. But overall EP8 offers more of a quieter and gentler hum than the whine of the E8000 motor, and its also quieter than the Bosch motor too. 3. While midly annoying, it only takes a couple button presses to get back to get an 800% stabbing strength increase! This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. Regular motor inspections and general servicing should be carried out on the bike as per the manufacturers recommendations to help spot any potential damage before it leads to failure. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Not everyone has the time to grind for an hour up the climb. This gives a very wide and flexible power band that does well to match what your legs are doing, making this the go-to, set-and-forget mode for proper off-roading. You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. Let us know what those are so we can demand them! I'd do way more on a big day. The new EP8 drive unit provides incredibly quiet assistance under pedal load. Appreciate the level of detail in this article, good work. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. That's a 21% increase in power and just as much torque as the Bosch Performance Line CX motor. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. For a mechanic, mechanical noise is a no-no by the end of the ride Id be destroyed mentally! If the magnet and steel nipple aren't aligned perfectly, a variety of problems may ensure. I do not have a car. Reading between the lines, we suspect the misinterpretation e*thirteen is referring to is regarding the EP8 bottom bracket axle spindle failure noted in TSB 157. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. Not a big Chan e but worth a look. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. All e-Bike assist mode gets disabled during the downhill slopes. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Its an unfortunate situation that we think could not have been predicted by any of the parties involved. And just read any car review of the blend between regenerative braking and hydraulic, then decide whether you want a computer deciding to regen as you roll off a drop regen braking is pretty much impossible on an ebike as it requires the use of a direct drive motor. If you don't like e-bikes for whatever reason, you really have no business even commenting on this review. Their new ride algorithms make the EP8 one of the most natural feeling motors out there, with plenty of power to propel the bike over obstacles, even if Bosch and Brose are still a bit punchier and deliver slightly more power. In the lower settings, youll have to pedal really hard to get maximum support the motor. Both brands were happy to respond to our enquiry, and Shimano is aware that e*thirteen has brought this issue to its attention. Shimano tried to take the Apple approach to antennaegateyou're holding your phone wrongyou're coasting your bike wrong. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. The reported cases of drive unit spindle breakages on our DU-EP800 drive units were combined with non-Shimano cranks. If youve experienced a Shimano EP8 bottom bracket spindle failure, let us know in the comments below. You miss that obscure offering from Specialized? What's left is just a plain old mountain bike with a weight around 14kg. We need to go deeper. We haven't really got an opinion about durability. Most brains will be capable of doing this, as the noise in question isnt actually signalling a fault with the motor. If that fails check those thin cables have no freys and are all in tact, they are easily damaged. The freewheel is still in the (regular) rear hub so when you're not pedaling, nothing in the motor-bottombracket assembly should be moving, isn't it? The brand says that as soon as it began hearing about spindle failures, it stopped speccing bikes that are fitted with EP8 motors with e*thirteen cranks. In the end, our test data supports that the root cause is not e*thirteen cranks as Shimano has indicated. Shimano also claims this issue is. At my age 69, if it isn't fun, exciting, and challenging, count me out! Our advice is not to rely on the range estimation in the first place. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? IMO we're still in the pilot phase and have a lot of room for improvement. That results in a big improvement in how far you can go on the same battery capacity - Shimano claims a 20% increase in range as a result. However, all are fitted with Shimano cranks. I swapped wheels but didn't realize I had to swap the magnet from the rotor bolts that was connected to the speed sensor in the software. With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. Seems quite useful for when pushing the bike up these impossible climbs. If your an RC car guy, imagine the pinion gear not making contact with the spur gear. I found this beauty as an example: The reviewer weighs 55kgs. It also responds a fraction quicker at the pedals, and delivers more overrun power when ratcheting the pedals over technical features up a climb. Would you like to receive offers, updates and events from BikeRadar and its publisher Our Media Ltd (an Immediate Group Company)? IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. Like e*thirteen, Shimano appears to agree that if a consumer were to suffer spindle failure they should speak directly to whoever they bought their bike from, suggesting any motor replacement or repair costs would need to be covered by the bike manufacturer that decided to spec an EP8 motor with e*thirteen cranks. Some say it's unreliable with a high risk of getting bricked. For commercial info: [email protected]. While weve certainly been impressed by the power, ride feel and tuneability of the Shimano EP8 system, how does it stack up against the likes of Bosch and Brose/Specialized? Yeah, that's pretty poor! When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. It also depends on the bike too. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. The complaints of charge bars on the display and the bike starting without any assistance are non issues for me. Shimanos battery flexibility certainly presents a significant advantage over the likes of Bosch, which is much more limited with its battery options. 214 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Thats given us plenty of saddle time to compare and contrast the new motor not only with E8000, but also with the latest Bosch Gen 4 motor and the Brose-manufactured 2.2 motor in the new Specialized Levo. e*thirteen is one of the biggest OEM suppliers of cranks on electric mountain bikes. The sign of a true technical rider. I've never heard the rattling noise that has been posted in the early reviews - the motor is super quiet, so it looks to me like much ado about nothing. @tomdesoals: Ah, thanks I get it. Overall its a vastly neater execution compared to the likes of Bosch and Yamaha with their Kinder Surprise-style switch units. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. The ability to customize the boost is very useful, with Shimano's app you can dial it in to your preferences. My first thoughts are that the disengagement part of the motor that allows it to pedal freely after 20 has already broken. If speed and maximum power output is less of a concern though, switching into the factory Eco mode is a sure-fire way to get more ride time expect range to double from those figures above. oooof! Plus the prices will drop as the tech becomes cheaper and can be offered at lower prices. Its mostly apparent when freewheeling down really rough trails, but weve been able to detect it when the motor is engaging and disengaging around the 25km/h cutoff on the road, and while cruising over washboard bumps on mundane fireroads. That said, wed prefer if there were more metrics displayed on the main screen to begin with, so you could ditch the GPS altogether. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. You are not alone. I tried to find out the cause of this. According to the TSB, only Shimanos EP8 motor is affected. The Brose Mag S motor has been used in the Specialized Levo and Kenevo since 2018, though it was recently updated for the release of the new Levo. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. With the new EP8, Shimano managed to close the gap to its biggest competitors. Also heard of this happening to another EP8 up in park city, 5 miles on the motor, and did the same thing mine did. How stuff like this gets through what I would like to think was extensive testing I will never know. Despite the musclier performance, weve had excellent results in terms of range, with the Bosch motor regularly achieving more miles and elevation over EP8. The version I've been riding on was 17,8kg. The noise is easily demonstrated if you pick the back wheel up a few inches off the ground and let it come back down. All you guys "waiting" to get a ebike are blowing it..the bikes are refined trek rail no problems..going around the country slaying every trail I see chugging beer and laughing at all u haters.. believe me I guys will all be on one sooner than later. Thus, I could ride a few feet with power then the motor would cut off. Where the EP8 motorisnt quieter than its predecessor however, is when youre not pedalling. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. Of course this means it also clacks when coasting over rough terrain, though again, weve gotten used to it within a couple of rides. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. there are no additional ports on the SC-E5003 to connect the switch with. Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. Furthermore, having the battery life displayed as five bars is positively rudimentary. e*thirteen recommends inspecting Shimano EP8 motor spindles to ensure no cracks are present before riding any EP8 equipped bike again and in doing so have provided a step by step process for doing this with images and instructions below. We will have them soon available in all our subsidiaries (Canada, USA, Chile, Australia, NZ and Reunion Island) to reach all our customers worldwide.. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? This, of course, is good news for Commencal customers with EP8 drive units and e*thirteen cranks, and were hopeful other brands will follow suit. Oh, how the humorous aspect of your comment has been missed. SpecializEd # levo SL is a great benchmark Have had a Specialized Levo & sold it due to making weird noises, so yes other manufacturers have problems too, not saying that is easy to get good reliability with new technology, but my Shimano e-8000 motor has been more reliable even is very wet weather! The only Shimano-approved pedal cranks listed on Shimanos website are the FC-EM600, FC-M8150 and FC-EM900, all of which are available to buy aftermarket from various retailers. e-bikes remove the only non-financial barrier for entry into a sport that historically required at least some small amount of fitness. However, we couldnt get the display to pair with our Wahoo ELMNT Roam head unit. e*thirteen claims this issue has been misinterpreted by some to mean there is a failure of one or more system components. The low profile EM800 display takes up minimal space next to the stem, featuring a crystal-clear screen with colour-coded graphics to easily identify which assist setting youre in. Good thing with Shimano is warranty,at least here in Madrid is almost instantaneous. - Tuning options are simple and effective The svelte motor casing provides more clearance for the rear wheel and suspension components, allowing brands to build their bikes with shorter chainstays. Its almost as if the battery drains faster in that final 20%. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. Shimano's EP8, short for DU-EP800, features a higher maximum torque of 85Nm compared to the older E8000's 70Nm, topping it by an extra 21%. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. This allows bike companies to engineer a single frame, while offering cheaper models with a 504Wh battery, and high-end models with a 630Wh battery. You still have the three basic assist modes: Eco, Trail and Boost. In the higher settings, the motor will deliver maximum power without you having to pedal very hard at all. Same with brose 2.1 & their motor failures. If a dynamo can be worked into the wheel hubs, you may even get near perpetual charging while the system is in use. (7000km ridden so far). Overall very pleased with the bike and the motor. Bikers Edge in Kaysville Utah hooked it up and took a motor off their demo heckler mx and put it on mine. Both bikes were fitted with e*thirteen cranks. How many instances of this problem has Shimano encountered? All bikes [have been] assembled with Shimano cranks since 2021 April.. While some frames will resonate more than others, the noise is otherwise normal, and it doesnt take long before your brain subconsciously ignores it. For riders scoping out bigger rides than that, youll want to consider dialling down the Assistance Character to improve efficiency. Generally on bikes we spend so little time braking that regeneration would be a waste of effort. Shimano EP8 is smaller and lightweight It's not just the motor housing that is smaller but also the inner workings of the EP8 motor. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). Just remember to manually unpair your phone from the bike before you start riding again, as the motor wont engage while the system is paired to the app. What can consumers expect to happen if their EP8s spindle fails? According to Shimano, design differences between Shimano and non-Shimano cranks cause the axle to crack and eventually fail. This means that if you ride in the default Trail and Boost settings, youll actually end up with a similar total range as the old E8000 motor, albeit with the benefit of more power and assistance throughout the ride. Simply enjoy what you are riding and watch the world, I should say, e-bike world, pass you by, as they are here to stay and while they are not perfect they are probably the best and most exciting thing to happen to the bike industry in 50 years! The issue, we've been told, is that the motor body is subject to cracking when the drive is employed as a stressed part of the bike's frame. Regardless ebike or "normal" MTB. Click on a component to learn more. Another bike that features Shimano EP8 is the new Orbea Rise. A dinamo or recharging when braking or something That's what I'm still waiting for! While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. It was one of the most fun bikes to ride. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. I have tested a few ones and to me best one is Specialized in terms of ridding feeling and refinement. 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