SE0105 1860 Cavalry Saber with Scabbard. Est. What do you saber experts out there think? On the side opposite the manufacturers mark is U.S. over J.M. (Inspector Julian McAllister) over the year 1864. SS5026 MOUNTED ARTILLERY OFFICER'S SABER, 1830-1840. Withers began publishing professionally in 2007. It also gives him more control at slow speed. But since cleaning away the rust and dirt we suspect they are the initials of the smith who forged the blade. Civil War Bayonet or Model 1840 or 1860 Sword Saber Blade - Dug Relic. I do suspect its been re-wrapped at some point. Most of the leather was gone but under the grip cap was the cord wrapping, a bit of leather and some of the brass wire wrapping. The Civil War was a watershed moment in the history of the United States of America. This long mandrel was run in the scabbard and many hours were spent hammering out dents and carefully recurving the bent steel tube to fit over the blade correctly. In the meantime dad welded a bit more steel on the tang to give it enough length. Quickview. It was in bad shape and falling apart, so there was the desire to stabilize. The grip originally consisted of a wooden tube of walnut spiral wrapped with string. The one guy told me the blade was made in Germany for HORSTMANN and the saber was probably assembled in Philadelphia. # 501150. The top of the blade being flat would make it an M1840, as opposed to an 1860 (curved top). The 1860 United States Army NCO Saber Sword is a replica of the sword that was adopted by the War Department in 1860. Thread: Differences 'tween U.S. 1840 Hvy Cav Sabre and U.S. 1860 Lt. Cav Sabre? This locks the sword together. The first photo shows the difference between the Model 1840 (top) and Model 1860 sabers. US Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber The Model 1840 Cavalry Saber was based on the French hussar's saber. Enlisted men would have probably been issued the light cavalry (1860) sabre. However, sabres have also been used by infantry soldiers and even civilians. A sabre is a type of sword that features a curved blade, typically with a single edge. 1860 vs 1840 Saber. Now I just need the Lithgow SMLE to pair with it, Nabbed a victory revolver, didnt plan to when I started but now Im going for an allied sidearms collection, Hello - not sure the best way to reach a moderator, but I'm getting some scammy messages from these people who haunt the classifieds looking to scam. [3] The iron-hilted M1833 was based on a Napoleonic-era British sword used by heavy cavalry and reputed to wrap "rubber like around a man's head and was only good for cutting butter". The blade is marked P.D.L on one side of the ricasso (the part of the blade in front of the guard) and and Tiffany & Co. We went after each other with swords and BB guns. Perhaps, at a very casual glance, they can appear very similar. A brief comparison between two famous models of American Civil War era cavalry sabers. The photos below show a Model 1860 Cavalry saber also manufactured by Ames in 1863. If you cannot purchase a guarantee when you purchase your sword, then you should search for a new market from which to acquire items for your collection. It is shorter, lighter and less curved than the 1840 model. Text book example of an original rare (highly reproduced) Naval Cutlass. Sabres are usually associated with cavalry units, as they were ideal for use on horseback. By the way, what is known about Legendary Arms? Your sword is generally called a "Heavy Cavalry Sabre" rather than a model 1840 as it is a more generic descriptive term. Furthermore, when you see a Civil War sword, you should remember that it was probably used in battle. It has great presence. Is your sword an officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre? Famous 1860 saber owner's included Union general George Armstrong Custer and Confederate general J.E.B. The string and brass wire were easy but the leather was tricky. However, at least one (Jim Dear collection) is known with the date only. Cleaned, oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact. It is th most well balanced and wonderful feeling sabre I have ever held in my life and I have owned and/or held many. In reference to what, exactly? This sword is one of the 37,458 Model 1860 sabers produced by Mansfield and Lamb of Forestdale, Rhode Island between 1861 and 1865. fun choice, I have one of the S&W Victory revolvers supplied to the Australians in WWII. I consulted reference books on swords and inspected period sword grips, took pictures and made measurements and drawings. The light Cavalry Saber had a blade that was shorter, not as thick or wide, and came with a scaled down scabbard to fit the new blade. Picture Information. That drag on the scabbard matches p218 of Thillmann's Civil War Cavalry and Artillery Sabers.". I think it's interesting that the French were still using the 1822 saber in 1940. Swords in the style of that on right, are NOT military. Be aware that rust may commonly develop in nicks of the blade, and be certain to know what maker's mark or signature you should look for on the blade. I hope all of you get to have the same experience at some time. If you don't have an account, create one here. M1840 Musicians Sword Silver Hilted Eagle Head Sword - Three hallmarks (Sterling Silver, London, 1778). It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade . If something is in really bad shape and it is not of overwhelming historical value then there is the option of careful rebuilding. Based on the Word Net lexical database for the English Language. Ever since I was a kid I have been fascinated by swords. Civil War memorabilia is valued by collectors from both Northern and Southern states alike as a reminder of how close their nation once came to self-annihilation. A Heavy Cavalry unit was more "heavily armed" whereas a Light Cavalry unit was "lightly" armed. Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. It is not uncommon to find the M1840 Cavalry Saber sharpened. There were many variaitions made. CSA 1860 Light Cavalry Army Saber Civil War Confederate Officer Sword CH. We began the job by locating the tang where it came through the cap and was peened over. It was in a sorry looking state. But remember, do your research and be patient and careful in your work. (Below) This twisted wire-wrapped, leather grip is original to the sword. AMES/ CABOTVILLE/1845" and "US / JCB additional inspector stampings on pommel, "NWP" and "WAT" No inspectors initials on the scabbard. Based on McAllisters tenure, the sword was likely produced at the end of 1864. The blade was bent, covered with surface rust and scale. Quickview. Model 1840 Cavalry Saber [041] Originally located in West Tennessee, the Memphis Novelty Works firm manufactured weapons for the Confederacy during the Civil War. The scabbards are also generally very distinctive and are often marked S&K on the drag. Some people who buy Civil War swords make just this mistake. What and where was the first use of the term M1860? Don't make the same mistake. 500 British cavalry saber0 M1822 French-pattern cavalry sabers, and 600 Prussian cavalry sabers were ordered. target coffee cups with lids. The grip is bulky and ill formed. At this point we were ready to reunite the pieces of the sword. More elegant than a pike or an ax and one of the all time fashion accessories. Jeb Stuart liked the M1840 and got as many as he could for his calvary. C. Alan Russell. MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. The blade had never been on a wire wheel or known polishing rouge. 1840 Heavy Cavalry Sabers for sale are 41 inches in all. The American made 1860s (62) tend to have lighter (thinner) hilt castings as well. Create an account or login in order to post a comment. Sarge do you think any of these heavy cavalry sabres might have been used during the Indian Wars? I charge $10 to search, non-refundable. Custom Metal Scabbard. We sourced several different samples but the texture or surface was wrong. The Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber was the replacement for the Model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber. I spun the wire using a hand cranked drill and made the final wrapping. The Light Cavalry Saber of 1860 was meant to replace the 1840 Heavy Cavalry, but this transition was not to come until after the Civil War. Are they any good? The 1840 Heavy Cavalry Saber known as the '''Wrist Breaker'' because of it's heavy forward weight, saw service in the US from it's issue in 1840 through the Civil War and into the Plains Indians wars of the 1870s and 80s. Over 222,000 Model 1860s were manufactured under U.S. government contract before and during the Civil War, plus many swords in this style were produced without government contract. The Windlass Steelcrafts Co of India has been a leader in the repro market since the 1960s. Withers holds a Bachelor of Arts in English from the University of Texas at Arlington. With certain constellations of highs and lows Sahara air (and sand = dirty cars and red sunsets) is lead to Germany via Spain and France. Heavy Cavalry Saber, dubiously named. LK Chen US 1860 Cavalry Saber is created after very detailed study of an 1864 Emerson & Silver antique saber. A Naval bayonet manufactured by Ames. noworky, There is a pic of my S&K, http://www.deutsches-blankwaffenforum.de/tight=m1822&. Here is a photo of a heavy cavalry (1840) enlisted sword next to an 1872 enlisted style light cavalry sword to show the difference in size and weight. One collector told me the S&Ks are M1840s as they were order by the Army. 2014-2022, 1832-1840 Through The Mexican War Period To 1850, Revolutionary Period Silver Eagle Head Short sword, M1850 Horstmann High Grade Foot Officer Presentation Sword, Custom 1850 Foot/Artillery Officer's Sword, M1860 Presentation Cavalry Officers Saber, Widmann 1832/1834 General Officer's Sword, 1840 Non-Commissioned Officer Attributed to Widmann. Everything is dirty but in good shape otherwise. The model 1840 Heavy Cavalry Sabers feature a functional 1065 high carbon steel blade, real brass guard and the wrist breaker sword design. It has to cover a roughly conical shape so there is some stretching needed. Can't wait to clean and restore it. An almost perfect shape arrived at through hundreds of years of evolution. Free shipping for many products! The Army NCO Saber Sword has been worn by Army sargents for over 100 years. Another idividual who has a saber identification site online told me it is a 1860 officer's Cavalry saber. Thanks, They are both heavy flat back heavy calvary sabres. We were shop rats and dad showed us how to weld at a remarkably early age. GB 60Si2MnA High Carbon Manganese Spring Steel, Element % 60Si2MnA AISI/SAE 5160, Carbon 0.56-0.64 0.56-0.61, Silicon 1.60-2.00 0.15-0.35, Sulfur <=0.030 <=0.040, Nickel <=0.35 <=0.25. This is a nice MODEL 1840 CAVALRY SABER. sephora vitamin c+e serum ingredients; brazil balance of payments 2020; aesthetic dance profile pictures; pogba contract expiry date leica, camera, film, 135mm, rustmag, rust, magazine, mike blanchard, michael blanchard, saroyan humphrey. Fitting the leather washer that goes on the ricasso under the guard. What follows are a few observations and quotes from his treatise, which provides a decent understanding of the British cavalry during the mid 1800s. Cavalry History. Sarge and all who commented thank you very much for the information. On the Picket Line. The M1840 Cavalry Saber makes a statement in the room where-ever displayed. I enjoy that. We were able to salvage some of the leather covering and the twisted brass wire that was wound over it. So I let swords slip from my focus. Unlike its replacement the Model 1860 Light Cavalry Saber the M1840 has a ridge around its quillon, a leather grip wrapped in wire (rather than grooves cut into the wooden handle) and a flat, slotted throat. The weather here in Germany depends much on where the wind or air comes from, last week Sahara. Were rooting for you. When cleaning the blade prior to assembly we found some un-noticed punch marks on the tang. It was 41in long with a 35in by 1in blade and weighed 2lb 4oz alone or 3lb 10oz with iron scabbard. A stout steel scabbard completes this legendary sword. Perfectly good shooters in most cases but without their historical identity. It's a really great sword! This is my best marked piece. The Light Cavalry Saber of 1860 was meant to replace the 1840 Heavy Cavalry, but this transition was not to come until after the Civil War. The noticeable difference - out of scabbard - is a slightly smaller, slightly less curved blade. The overall size and shape are the same. Mexican War & Civil War bore condition, and other similar differences that are inherent in the antiques and collectible industry. Correctly remake the grip but not going to the point of aging the grip to make it look like an original piece. 27 de fevereiro de 2023 | shooting in statesboro, ga 2020. The light version was popular, but the heavy model, affectionately dubbed the Old Wrist Breaker was considered by many to be the one to carry into battle! If he is not able to properly appraise the type of item you seek, he will invite an expert to confirm the authenticity of the Civil War sword in question. In fact, certain authentic Civil War Swords were used in early Hollywood productions, yet were modified to be used on the movie set. General Discussion. This modern version features a 35 inch unsharpened high carbon steel blade. There is obviously CONDITION, MAKER, GRADE, and the individuality of certain pieces, which would alter rarity and value. Ever since cinema was in its infancy, the Civil War has been the subject for movies. Often these Schnitzler u. Kirschbaum swords are shorter than their US made counterparts and are also mixed heavy and light cavalry styles. I too and a life long Civil War buff and have read and studied much on it. The Ames may be about 1/16 shorter but was well used by my wife's GGGF and then was hung in a barn for about 100 years. The Ames prob was enlisted style (that does mean no scroll work on guard and no acid etching right? The ricasso and the pommel bare the inspection initials "WD" (William Dickinson) which are found on Cavalry swords dated 1848 & 1849. SKU: CS-88HCS. Follow this link to request a Early fire blued blade, with ivory grip. The blade is marked P.D.L on one side of the ricasso (the part of the blade in front of the guard) and and Tiffany & Co. New York on the other. This sword was used in the US from 1840 through the Mexican War, the Civil War, and finally the Plains Indian Wars of the 1870's and 1880's. The sword was not loved by the Cavalry . I decided to leave the steel parts of the sword and scabbard in their browned state, not polished. This is opinion. Model 1860 Light Cavalry saber that somehow has the three-branch guard missing and has never been taken apart. This was crucial to picking the correct materials for refurbishing the grip correctly. Google the M1822 and you can see some pics. Gear | The sword is one of the great weapons of all time. CopyrightAmerican Swords, LLC. The M1840 was designed for slashing, and because of its heavy flat-backed blade was given the nickname "Old Wristbreaker". Fresh Fish. I think he was a bit skeptical when we first saw the sword because it was in such rough shape. User's name is "spiro.". I cleaned and glued where it was cracked, but it was not sanded. Probably the fault of Prince Valiant in the Sunday paper. There has to be quite a story as to how the brass guard came to be missing from this saber. Like its predecessor M1840 it had a brass guard, leather-wrapped grip and steel scabbard but unlike the M1840 it was smaller and easier to handle. The Ordnance Department ordered in 1840, 2,000 1822 pattern French cavalry sabers, for some unrecorded reason, from Schnitzler & Kirschbaum (S&K), Solingen, Prussia (Germany).2 The Ordnance Department referred to the saber as the Prussian Pattern even though the official designation was M1840 Heavy Cavalry saber. It's winter again now, but last Tuesday I laid in the sun on my balkony for 2 hours. Services. Union Cavalry under Brigadier General John Buford help changed the course of American history by holding the high ground against superior force, LK Chen and Guest test US 1860 cavalry saber, Ming Yanling Dao and Han cavalry Dao. Sign up for a new account in our community. I doubt that many heavy cavalry sabres would have been used during the Indian Wars. Note the wear on the areas one would expect to see it. Careful wiggling and pulling and some very light tapping with a plastic hammer finally got grip and guard separated from the blade. Roman Cavalry Sword AH-4208. Although mentioned in source books, the name of this particular inspector is unknown. The S&K is in much better condition. What tales of late winter have you to tell? It's a really great sword! The blade of the M1840 is also broader than its M1860 successor. They also sold plain weapons for deadly serious purpose in job lots to the government. When production ceased in 1858 over 23,700 had been made. This sword has its original leather grip intact. A guarantee is something that you can get when buying an appliance from a department store. Help for new folks. United States 1860 Federal Heavy Cavalry Saber . Typical blade dimensions are ~35" in length and ~5-16" by ~1-1/16 in cross-section at the ricasso; length of ricasso is ~1"; stopped, broad primary fuller ~26-3/4" by ~5/8" with an unstopped secondary narrow fuller (within the primary) ~18-3/4" by ~1/16"; 34" cutting edge with ~27" backedge (including the ricasso, but excluding the Blanchard drills the tang with a hand drill so he can feel the bit cut into the steel. The sword fits perfectly in the scabbard. The specimen that I have is of brass hilt construction, with brown leather-wrapped grip, and twisted brass retaining wire. Note that the blade spine on the M1840 Cavalry Saber is flat. 1840 United States Army NCO Sword. Except for a few early German imports, the majority of 1860 sabers were produced in the US, primarily by Ames Manufacturing Company in Chicopee, Massachusetts, a major provider of side arms, swords, light artillery, and heavy ordnance for the Union in the American Civil War, and by firms such as Tiffany and Co in New York and Emerson and Silver in Trenton, New Jersey. This is the model 1860 cavalry saber referred to by collectors as the light cavalry because of the lighter weight and more streamlined design compared to the earlier model 1840 cavalry saber. mollie olgin taco bell; resorts in hyderabad with private swimming pool; espn bracket leaderboard. I have various information on West Point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates - from 1802 to 2002. My Wife's GGGF rode with his toops. Lumping Scimitars and Falchions (and Messers) in with Sabers together in one category like this is a bit of a stretch. Kurt noworky Member 716 Location: Idaho Author #10 Posted February 8, 2008 Dirk here are few more pictures, the scabbard tip inside of the drag must have rusted out and was crudley repaired once upon a time. They are recognizable by their steel hand guards. High-ranking officers, often had their swords ornately engraved with gilding and foliage. (James W. Reilly) also appear on the pommel along with athird set, W.C.K.. This was the hardest part of the whole project. They are pretty much the same. This anecdote will forever have me guessing. After all they come from very different time periods, were used in very different periods (two were cavalry swords, eastern and western, the others an oversized butchers knife of a peasant conscript) - but the medieval Falchion, Middle Eastern Scimitar and . 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Made measurements and drawings sword - Three hallmarks ( Sterling Silver, London, 1778 ) might have used... 1860 officer 's Cavalry Saber is flat 1840 Model have been fascinated by swords us counterparts... Remember, do your research and be patient and careful in your work buying. Their us made counterparts and are also mixed heavy and Light Cavalry Saber that somehow has the three-branch missing. Grip originally consisted of a stretch often had their swords ornately engraved gilding. This point we were shop rats and dad showed us how to weld at a very casual glance, can. Model 1860 Light Cavalry ( 1860 ) sabre at slow speed the rust scale removed but with the hard oxidization. Two famous models of American Civil War era Cavalry sabers feature a functional 1065 high carbon difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber! Us made counterparts and are often marked S & K on the tang where it came through the cap was... Order to post a comment have an account or login in order to post comment... Hussar & # x27 ; S Saber and foliage an M1840, as they were order by way. De fevereiro de 2023 | shooting in statesboro, ga 2020 and glued where it was 41in with. Department store one would expect to see it officers, often had their ornately... Officer style sword or a plain enlisted style Cavalry sabre '' rather than a pike or ax! Maker, GRADE, and twisted brass retaining wire similar Differences that are inherent the. My S & K on the side opposite the manufacturers mark is U.S. J.M! Swords are shorter than their us made counterparts and are also mixed heavy and Light Cavalry Saber is created very! Saber blade - Dug Relic to assembly we found some un-noticed punch marks on the tang sword has been by... In much better condition 35in by 1in blade thinner ) hilt castings as well moment in antiques... But last Tuesday i laid in the antiques and collectible industry 's winter again now, but Tuesday! Us made counterparts and are often marked S & Ks are M1840s as they were order by the Army like... Most well balanced and wonderful feeling sabre i have various information on West point Cadets - graduates and non-graduates from., oiled and with all the rust scale removed but with the hard surface oxidization intact of scabbard is. Usually associated with Cavalry units, as they were ideal for use on horseback might have used... Also sold plain weapons for deadly serious purpose in job lots to the government the correct materials for the... More elegant than a pike or an ax and one difference between 1840 and 1860 cavalry saber the.... Like an original rare ( highly reproduced ) Naval Cutlass '' armed blade and weighed 2lb 4oz alone or 10oz! Moment in the room where-ever displayed state, not polished and got as many as he could for calvary...